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Your thoughts about 3.5/complete patches and fix menu
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[RS]nJL



Joined: 22 Jan 2015
Posts: 110
Location: Italy

PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2015 5:13 pm    Post subject: Your thoughts about 3.5/complete patches and fix menu Reply with quote

First, the 3.5 WithCD patch.
Let's start from this assumption:
the official 3.5 WithCD patch can't be modified, because of copyright issues and because of the fact it would be nomore an official patch.
Now this is outdated, some bugs reside inside of it (and I'm talking about the B button problem, the low polys and the driver animation problem), it requires the CD that noone would want to use anymore and can't be fixed (it's not worth to, too).
Thus, we can either remove it from the fix menu, or keep it as it is.
Sincerely, I'd prefer the second, for completeness, historical reasons, sense of rightness towards EA, and because one (like me) that wants to understand what he/she's installing can have a better picture of the matter.

Now, the 3.5 NoCD patch.
IMHO, it should be the same as the official 3.5 WithCD patch, i.e. the same identical files, but the original Porsche.exe should be replaced by the latest NoCD patch by Martin and Adri.
Thus, the files it should be made of would be:

FEData\Data\nfs5.car
FEData\Data\nfs5.prt
FEData\Data\nfs5.trn
FEData\Locale\festrings.csv
FEData\Locale\festrings.loc
FEData\Locale\hudstrings.h
Porsche.exe
properties.txt
version.txt

An archive made this way would assure no need to install the 3.5 WithCD before the NoCD, because the NoCD contains all the correct 3.5 files.

Finally, the 3.5 Enhanced patch.
I had the opportunity to check what files are installed by the original Setup.exe of the enhanced patch, and I found that it lacks some of the 3.5 files.
Martin also discovered this long before, and we both are of the opinion that a new enhanced archive should be created.
This would have at least two advantages: a) we place ALL of the 3.5 files (as per official 3.5 patch) together with the enhanced files, and b) by excluding the Setup.exe, we have an easy-to-manage enhanced archive, also easier to be installed by the fix menu.
The files it should be made of would be:

(from official 3.5 WithCD)
FEData\Data\nfs5.car
FEData\Data\nfs5.prt
FEData\Data\nfs5.trn
FEData\Locale\festrings.csv
FEData\Locale\hudstrings.h

(from 3.5 enhanced - old Setup.exe)
Enhanced\Readme.rtf (just to explain in what the 3.5 enhanced differs over the standard patch)
FEData\Data\nfs5-1.hud
FEData\Data\nfs5-2.hud
FEData\Locale\festrings.loc
FEData\Layouts\garage.lay
FEData\Layouts\loadreplay.lay
FEData\Layouts\usedcars.lay
Porsche.exe (replaced by the Martin's and Adri's new enhanced executable)
properties.txt
version.txt
gimme.dll

All these patches created this way can be placed over an original game installation, really simple.
Of course, if I install first the enhanced and then I want to switch to NoCD standard, replacing the main Porsche executable couldn't do the trick because the enhanced edition upgraded also other files (see above).
To solve this, we could include the original files to the NoCD archive but IMHO this is not a good thing, because a) would break the "genuine" structure of the 3.5 patches and b) would bring to confusion.
The easiest way would be to install the game again and repatch it.

Complete patches:
I'm not particularly a fan of complete patches.
Yes they're simpler to install, but if I want more control over what I'm installing then install just some parts of a complete patch can become harder than install each fix separately.
Why the heck would I like to have more control over what I'm installing?
Speaking about PU it's quite simple: not all things are needed by everyone. Some examples follow.

Tuurngait wrote:
It is right that my complete patch forces everyone to use nGlide. It's the best solution since DirectX is no longer recommended to use. [...] But I can create a clean patch without nGlide

I personally tried both NGlide and DirectX. With NGlide, the menus look uglier to me than with DirectX, and during races I get pretty the same results. Thus, if I use Windows 7 or earlier and I have no problems with DirectX, I'd prefer to use it.
I for sure would switch to NGlide if frequent crashes to desktop appear, but for now I haven't raced a lot and I got just a CTD.

gimme.dll: I got the pic16.fsh error one time on all my tests (and they've been a lot, trust me).
I can't remember how I solved it (it was either by installing the XP Fix -I run Win7-, or enabling some compatibilities, or using the gimme.dll from the enhanced archive), but for sure I've not used the empty gimme.dll of 3 bytes I found on the Martin's complete patch.
I'm not saying this wouldn't be a solution, but why do I have to renounce to profile pictures if I can solve it another way?
Of course, if the error will reappear I'll use the empty gimme, but for now I won't.

Therefore, I prefer to have a complete fix menu, where I can choose what to install basing on the errors I get or the features I want, day by day.

Martin, you said by yourself you have no problems to remove the chrome patch and the NGlide support from your complete patch, but this way it would be no more a complete patch Smile
And releasing different complete patches on different needs would create more confusion than releasing single fixes.
Thus in my opinion we should stay with NGlide, chrome, XPFix and so on as separate fixes, and "resize" the complete patches to just the 3.5 NoCD and 3.5 Enhanced archives.
That's pretty what you were suggesting here: http://www.iplounge.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2505
This also would prevent breaking the work JMac is doing in releasing the new IPL version, because if we change mind any minute he for sure will provide us with the new version by some years from now! We don't want it!!

Ah yeah, the EA bonus cars.
This is someway an official package and, since it's required to play in IPL alongwith one of the 3.5 patches, I agree with you that it could be added directly into the 3.5 archives (NoCD and enhanced).
Nevertheless, if we decide to keep the 3.5 WithCD (that can't be changed), the fix menu should still contain an entry for bonus cars.
This would not hurt, anyway, because installing the bonus cars over a 3.5 which already includes them does nothing.
A message, while installing the 3.5 NoCD/Enhanced, informing the user they already contain the bonus cars would be perfect, though.

Thanks anyone for reading and debating.

P.S.: I wrote at the beginning the files I think it would be cool to include in the new 3.5 archives just for information.
Martin already did this job in his complete patches so there's no real need to retrieve the files again in making the new archives.
I simply would strip any fix from the complete patches, except for eventually the bonus cars and any other we decide to leave inside (hopefully, as the result of this thread).


Last edited by [RS]nJL on Mon Nov 30, 2015 7:21 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Tuurngait



Joined: 07 Mar 2011
Posts: 298

PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2015 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My complete patch is not thought to be added to the fix menu. It's just my personal created patch that includes everything you need to play with the best experience. Everything in one file. And you NEED nGlide and the empty gimme.dll, because DirectX is broken and pic16 errors appearing. People who don't have this issues have just luck. It's a question of time until they'll appear. My complete patch is a solution to play NFS PU definitely without troubles. And nGlide is not only a workaround, it has by far better quality and compatibility. I agree with the menu font that looks uglier than in DirectX, but all other things are looking better.

But I also agree that we need a base upgrade that comes without all of these optionals and mods included. Therefore I created a new archive that merges all files from the official EA 3.5 patch and the enhanced files. So that there is no longer a lack of files and people can directly install this patch over the stock 3.4 game.

And as you said, it makes sense to include the EA addon cars into the archive, because they are official EA content and not a mod. And it doesn't make sense to make it optional, because 1. it's required to play online and 2. who the hell wants to miss additional cars?


Porsche.icd
Is not needed. It's a with-CD backup.

SaveData\XXhud1XX.hud
SaveData\XXhud2XX.hud
Are also not needed. When you install the enhanced patch over the stock 3.4 game, then these files won't be added.
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[RS]nJL



Joined: 22 Jan 2015
Posts: 110
Location: Italy

PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok you preceeded me Smile
My next question would have been why not Porsche.icd and XXhud1/2XX.hud? Coool.
I removed them from the first post too.

Thanks for explaining your thoughts about complete patch and base upgrade.

Ah yeah about cars:
the IPL scan rejected my 993coupeS36.sim file.
Although this is not about bonus cars, K told me that some versions of the game have such a file wrong, and that can give an advantage over the speed of that car.
The fix menu fixed this via the file fix.
Maybe the correct version of the file could be put directly in the 3.5 patches, along with the bonus car files.

Also, what do you think about the updated voodoo2z.dll?
Ok this is not official, but shouldn't modify the game in anyway and on the contrary it could provide some minor bug fixes.

Bb.
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Tuurngait



Joined: 07 Mar 2011
Posts: 298

PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Porsche.icd is only a backup of the original with-CD exe. You can delete it.
The both hud files are not getting installed when you apply the enhanced patch over the stock game without having a "SaveGame" folder created.

I don't know about the 993 car file. I'm using the official EA file here. No mods.

I took the voodoo2z.dll from GALAH's Fifa2000 3D-patch, which seems to include some improvements/fixes compared to the old original. NFS High Stakes also take the d3d9a.dll from GALAH's Fifa patch. It's the best compatible file that allows high-poly cars etc.
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[SK]Nath
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Joined: 03 Dec 2010
Posts: 579

PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 10:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WhiteAngel wrote:
The IPL scan rejected my 993coupeS36.sim file.
Although this is not about bonus cars, K told me that some versions of the game have such a file wrong, and that can give an advantage over the speed of that car.


That is correct. The original 993coupeS36.sim file has a bug which allowed people to cheat. So we patched the file to prevent it from happening further. Nobody can race PU at IPLounge without using our patched file.
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Tuurngait



Joined: 07 Mar 2011
Posts: 298

PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2015 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why does a car file have cheating information? Cheats are wanted by EA, so why doesn't every car file have this? So I think it's not really a bug - rather not wanted by IPL.
And as far as I know when you enter cheats as a profile-name the game will crash. It doesn't work anymore since 3.5 update.
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[SK]Nath
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2015 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I never said the files have cheating information within them. Several of the Modern Era sim files have bugs in them because they weren't correctly programmed from the beginning. The exception is this particular file gave an advantage to racers who knew how to abuse the bug. Abusing any bug in any system is considered cheating the system whether it be in gaming or any industry. In some of the most recent EA titles, EA have given out permanent bans to users who have abused bugs in their games or servers where certain users have gained an advantage over the rest of the community. EA should have patched these files long ago but didn't. Like many things we've done over the years, we've done their work for them.
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Tuurngait



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Posts: 298

PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2015 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, thanks for the answer Nath. So how exactly does the fixed file affect/change the speed or physics of the car?
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[SK]Nath
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2015 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The fixed file ensures the speed of the car cannot exceed the actual top speed the car is meant to have. The old file allowed the actual top speed to be exceeded by tampering and thus overloading the car with parts. Therefore, the speed of the car could reach 181 mph (291 kph) rather than the actual top speed of the car which is 175 mph (281 kph). The fixed file prevents this.

The other Modern Era cars I referred to have a similar principle except overloading the car with parts actually decreases the speed of the car rather than increasing its speed. Therefore, if anyone attempts this same method with these cars, they are unintentionally penalised by the game as a result.
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Tuurngait



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PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2015 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting, but this is not cheating. When tuning a car with high-performance or racing engine parts, it's normal (and good) that a car will become faster than with original parts.
Tuning is a nice "feature" of PU and required to have a chance in evolution mode.

And when everyone drive the same car, then it's fair.
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[SK]Nath
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2015 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes I totally agree about everyone driving the same car. When I referred to the top speed of the car, this is after the car is fully tuned with the highest performance parts. However, after uninstalling a specific highest performance part with a different lower performance part then installing the highest performance part again, this boosted the speed of the car in comparison to when the highest performance parts are installed normally. This isn't meant to happen and this gave an unfair advantage to racers who knew about this. Now we can ensure we have a level playing field where everyone is driving the same car.

I'm not going to mention the combination of parts for obvious reasons.
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Tuurngait



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PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2015 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, now I understand. Is the 993 car file the only one with this bug? And who did the fix?
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[SK]Nath
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2015 9:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, the 993coupeS36.sim is the only file that has the increased speed bug. [SK]Mazkx (Adriano) produced the fix for the file.
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Tuurngait



Joined: 07 Mar 2011
Posts: 298

PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2015 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, thanks!
Now I installed the new IPLounge 5.42 alpha to get the new files. I noticed that the following files got replaced:

GameData\CarModel

- 928.crp
- 928.tpg
- 928d.fsh
- 928l.fsh

GameData\Simulation\CarData

- 993coupeS36.sim
- 928coupeGTS54.sim


Can you tell me something about this? Because I think about to add it into the complete patch.

*edit:
Ah, sorry! I noticed that the updated files from 2011 were already part of the addon car archive. So that the only new file is the 993coupeS36.sim.
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[SK]Nath
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2015 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tuurngait wrote:
GameData\CarModel

- 928.crp
- 928.tpg
- 928d.fsh
- 928l.fsh

GameData\Simulation\CarData

- 928coupeGTS54.sim


All of these are EA Add On Cars files, specifically the files required for the 928 car to be activated in PU.

Tuurngait wrote:
GameData\Simulation\CarData

- 993coupeS36.sim


This is the fixed 993coupeS36.sim file which we were discussing yesterday.
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